Cairney Conversations – Interview with Professor Jon Timmis, Vice-Chancellor, Aberystwyth University

Founder and CEO of Cairney and Company, Karen Cairney, recently had the pleasure of meeting with Professor Jon Timmis, the new Vice-Chancellor of Aberystwyth University to discuss the first year in his new role, his unconventional route to Higher Education and the transformational impact universities can have on lives.

What attracted you to the role of Vice-Chancellor at Aberystwyth?

Prof Jon Timmis: Aberystwyth has had a profound effect on my life.  I left school at 16 with no A Levels and virtually no O Levels and trained as a chef. I came to university late in life and studied Computer Science and stayed on to do my PhD at Aberystwyth. I try to never forget where I’ve come from and who has helped me along the way and Aberystwyth University helped me so profoundly that when the job came up, it was just too tempting not to go for it. It’s a fantastic institution and it’s a privilege to lead it.

As you approach your one-year Anniversary, what are some of the standout things and highlights of your first nine or so months?

Prof Jon Timmis: It is a full-on job! My previous boss said that it would be, and he was right! The commitment of our staff to the students is quite remarkable. The sense of community here is really significant, more so than I think you see in some other Universities. It's probably a function of our size and our location and the type of people that work here who love the place. There is a real desire to see Aberystwyth do well.

Community is a core part of our new strategy, and the breadth and depth of what is going on here for a relatively small institution is incredible. We’re not massive with only 6,500 full-time students but with academic rigour across a number of disciplines. The obvious elephant in the room is the finances, but this is a sectoral issue rather than an Aberystwyth one alone.

Given your location, do you have more students living on campus?

Yes, we are a predominantly residential University. Of those 6,500 students, the vast majority are not local. We have 3,000 bedrooms that we run on campus. So we have a big operation and then the rest of our students live in and around town.

So, you are a major contributor to the economy of the town as well?

Prof Jon Timmis: It’s massive. We are the biggest employer in the whole region, we employ about 1,800 staff in the University in a town of 17,000. Huge impact!

You touched on at the beginning how Aberystwyth changed your life, and I know that you recently posted a story about how Universities can change the trajectory of someone’s life, highlighting the pressures that Higher Education in Wales and the UK are facing. I think the University story is so much more than purely economics; it is about people’s lives and how university has changed that for so many. How do you think Aberystwyth changes people's lives and what are your hopes for the students of the future graduating classes?

Prof Jon Timmis: It changes lives in a number of ways; some of which aren’t obvious. The obvious ones are through the teaching that we do. People come here, they learn new skills, new knowledge and go out into the world and make their mark and that’s an obvious way in which we do it. There are other things, we are building a sense of community at Aberystwyth where people care about society and society’s problems and want to do something about it.

A key focus of our new strategy is how does Aberystwyth inspire people to do something, take action. It’s not just about us doing something, it's about people looking to us to get inspired by what we do and how we behave. I think that we can have that positive effect on society if we take things like equality and equity seriously. I would hope people will look at us and say ‘they do it, why don’t we do that’. If we look at our commitment to net zero, for example, which is incredibly challenging, we are still committed to doing that over time. It’s about leadership and inspiring people to say: ‘well if Aberystwyth does it then we will follow.’ I think we can have an impact on people and change how they behave.

People are very much at the heart of your strategy, their wellbeing and creating a sense of place and community. The wellbeing of young people is often in the news in a variety of different ways, and you have spoken about your commitment to pay forward those opportunities afforded to you and empower others. How do you propose to empower the students and the staff at Aberystwyth?

Prof Jon Timmis: It is quite easy to talk about, but quite difficult to do. One of the key things I have learned is that sometimes Universities don’t always empower people, they don’t feel like they have a voice or there is a distrust. If they speak up, they think they might even get into trouble.

I think some of the processes or structures we have don’t enable people to feel empowered and get on with the job. However, with that empowerment comes responsibility and accountability. What we are trying to do at the moment is shift the University to one where people can feel empowered and are given the responsibility and the accountability to get on with it. In order to do that we have got to fundamentally change some bits of how you work and how we are structured.

We are talking about creating an environment where it’s ok to try new stuff. One of our values is pushing boundaries, not only in knowledge creation but also in how we work. As long as the intent drives us forward, and we have tried new ideas properly, if they don’t always work, it’s OK.

It's about risk taking and universities are not always good at taking risks.

Prof Jon Timmis: No they’re not. We’re trying to build a mindset of it’s okay to take some calculated risks. Of course, with risk comes potential failure but you accept that and you learn from it. That’s a shift and a tricky one… at the moment we are not quite there yet.

I often say to people if you remove a university’s name from the strategy, would you be able to say who it is? Most teach and conduct research. That’s what you do as a business but it’s not who you are as an institution.

Prof Jon Timmis: In our new strategy that we are developing, we have tried to encapsulate who we are and what we are here for because of the way we have phrased it. We are looking to embrace our rural location rather than seeing it as a deficit model, the fact that we are a bilingual institution and actually Aberystwyth is a very interesting and cosmopolitan place, and it’s all about making a difference and changing lives.

It leads nicely to the next question … we have certainly seen in the media the criticism of universities around their value to society. From your view, over and above the teaching and research, what societal value do you believe that universities have going forward?

Prof Jon Timmis: You are right, it’s about more than just training people for jobs and looking at the output of a university in that context. I think that does miss the point. I think there is an educational piece that having people who are educated, who have critical thinking and are able to question things is good for society in and of itself. It then comes back to the amount of work that universities do that goes unseen sometimes, and that’s what is broadly called the civic piece. We are doing an extraordinary amount for the local communities, not only here in Aberystwyth but in mid-Wales and Wales in general. That’s what we don’t get paid for. The funding model doesn’t support it.

We have that key leadership role to play in our communities partly because of our size and our influence and we take it seriously. Even in Aberystwyth we have got things like our University Arts Centre which is a pivotal part of the community. We pay for most of it and that’s the civic good and I can’t imagine not having it. Place-making is an aspect of what we do which again is a civic good with benefits for the communities that are not only economic but social and cultural as well. I think there is so much more to universities than what is often portrayed in the press.

Sometimes universities can seem like ivory towers, inaccessible and if you’ve not gone through the educational process, you maybe don’t get it. We both took non-traditional routes to higher education, so how do you embrace people and bring them in?

Prof Jon Timmis: It’s a real difficulty.  There is a barrier, whether real or perceived about people coming into universities. If you left school at 16, if you’ve not been exposed to education, the thought of going into a university can be so overwhelming. I think it is incumbent on us to make sure not only that we bring people in, but we go to people because otherwise they won’t come to us. In my last university, we had people living 100 yards away who had never been on campus. They just wouldn’t go. Yet you could see the houses from my office.

It's how you bridge that divide isn’t it?

Prof Jon Timmis: It’s a real problem and I think universities have to be careful not to think that if we invite people they will come. I don’t agree with that. How do you make a community in the place where you live and where you are? It’s not by inviting everyone to your house, is it? You go to other people’s houses. So why are we any different?

You have said that Aberystwyth has a strong alumni community.  Typically, universities tend to spend a lot of time and resources on recruiting students, then supporting their educational journey, but when they graduate universities spend so much time trying to chase people.  Graduates are the single largest external stakeholder group for any university, so how can we balance this resource more equitably and not have alumni feeling that they don’t matter once they graduate?

Prof Jon Timmis: Great question! It’s really tough and I think because of the pressure that’s on resources, particularly in a small institution like ours, there is a constant challenge of wanting to make sure you have got enough students in, and you look after them. It is a real challenge, but I think the way we get around that is by doing things through collaboration with people and working with the alumni community. Looking at how you build capacity within the alumni team and your broader staff base as well, so they understand what it means to engage with alumni. And it's not just the role of the alumni office.

You do compromise on what you can and can’t do and we have got a number of things that we are trying to look at now around careers and employability. One of our metrics looks at employability, and we are looking at how we can improve on that when our students are here and how we support them once they leave. We provide three-year post-graduation support, which includes advice, guidance, access to vacancies, databases, and various events. The other piece is around building that capacity through an alumni community of volunteers.

We are starting to rethink how we build that volunteering base from our alumni, many of whom want to get engaged. The link to Aberystwyth is incredibly strong for our alumni, so how do you tap into that passion and open up doors for our more recent graduates? We have alumni clubs in different parts of the world, but how do we support people meaningfully? That comes down to what do we want institutionally? What do our students need and how do we align our alumni activity to respond to that? I think there are different activities that we can look at, such as mentoring, networking, CPD etc but again, we need to do that sustainably.

How do you build it into the student journey so that it’s not just at graduation that they feel that they are part of the community but from the minute they walk in the door?

Prof Jon Timmis: If you can get the alumni volunteering, and through this exposing some of the students to those alumni early on, getting their stories heard, so students see that people have been here before them and have gone on to be successful. We have a lot of alumni staff here, myself included, and it’s tapping into them in a slightly different way, possibly in terms of their own stories – getting alumni into the physical (or virtual) classroom. Often they might not even talk about the fact that they were here.

The stories are great as part of the recruitment process as well as building the brand and reputation of the organisation too. I know from your previous roles that you have been very supportive of philanthropy and alumni engagement.  The current challenging climate requires an increased focus on additional income streams. What role do you hope that philanthropy will play in supporting the new university strategy?

Prof Jon Timmis: For me it is a key part of the strategy which I made clear in my interview.  In terms of the specifics around our income diversification, we have set very clear targets now for our development team. We have invested in that team despite everything else. Is it going to raise us £100m? Maybe not in the short term, but it is going to raise money that is critical for us to be able to progress our strategy. It’s not just about the money, it’s about making those connections to people, getting them on side, getting their input and benefit from their life experience. I have met many of our donors now who have given very generously and, not only do they want to give their money, they really want to help.

We are finding more and more when we are speaking to donors who are giving gifts of significance, they want to be engaged around their gift. Gone are the days when people write cheques and walk away. They not only want to see the impact, they want to be part of the impact.

Prof Jon Timmis: Absolutely, that’s important to do whilst maintaining that distance and being donor focussed and involving donors in the process.  It is a question of mutual trust, we want them to feel the benefit of their generosity, whilst recognising that we are the people best placed to deliver the activity that they want to see. Donor centric as opposed to donor-led.

Was it an expectation of the governing body when they were recruiting, that philanthropy, and alumni would be part of the role?

Prof Jon Timmis: It was on the job description and I pre-empted it by making it very clear that I saw it as a key part of the role for the University. I think they had expected that and I’m glad they did because I think it is a key role for the Vice- Chancellor.

We have touched on the financial challenges universities are facing. You have made an investment in the philanthropy and alumni engagement team, but many universities are still not. How do you think fundraising and alumni teams can best make the case for not only why they are a valuable investment but do so in the current climate?

Prof Jon Timmis: I asked our Director of Development, Lyndsey Stokes, to go away and come back with a business case highlighting what they needed to be successful. As well as what she believed we could raise and the impact it would have, the case was very compelling highlighting the Return on Investment over time, and that there is a direct correlation between what we invest, and what we get back.

One of the key things we have put into our new strategy is a value ‘take the long view’, where we prioritise long-term thinking. If we can invest now, which we have done, then we would expect to see benefits in the next two to five years. It was quite simple. What investment do you need? What are we going to get back from it? The case was compelling.

As someone who has been part of philanthropic journeys in other institutions, you understand it, you know that it takes time, and it is about building a culture of philanthropy. The late Sir Eric Thomas would say the culture shift is when “you become a fundraising university and not just a university that fundraises.” Where would you say the culture of philanthropy is at the moment within your internal community, on a scale of one to ten (Ten being everyone gets it and One being no-one even knows what philanthropy means?)

Prof Jon Timmis: I think we are probably at about four. We have a reasonable number of people who get it, but most people still don’t and that’s not their fault. There is a cultural piece to do around what it really means. Some people’s thought of philanthropy is still “I want a big building over there, go and get me £30m”, and of course that time has gone. We need to change that mindset and educate the staff and students about what it really means.

We often refer to philanthropy as creating that margin of excellence– it’s not about keeping the lights on, or the doors open. It is about the great things you want to do that philanthropy and alumni can support. When you look at your leadership team within the University, what are some of the key things you think will need to happen over the next two to five years to embed and sustain philanthropy over time?

Prof Jon Timmis: I am keen to make sure that does happen. Seeing it as a long-term investment first of all and then framing it as business as usual, so it’s not just the team – it’s everyone’s business. I see it the same as student recruitment. Student recruitment is everyone’s business and everyone’s got a part to play. Philanthropy is in a similar space where everyone has a role to play at different points. If we can embed it into the planning cycle of our university, it becomes business as usual.

The University celebrated its 150th year in 2022, and if you are sitting here in five or ten years time, what are the top things you want to ensure the University has achieved?

Prof Jon Timmis: Firstly, I hope I am here in 10 years time. I have started with a five-year timescale around ensuring that we’re financially and educationally sustainable. I would want to have seen a sustained improvement in our graduate outcomes, our students are getting better jobs and outcomes for themselves. Growth in some major areas of research where we know we are doing world-leading work already, but we can really make a name for ourselves. So when people see the impact of the research, they know ‘that’s Aberystwyth.’

Is there anything you want to say that I have not touched on?

Prof Jon Timmis: When I was focussing on my academic career, I didn’t really understand philanthropy and alumni. I can remember going to a seminar by Mary Howarth at York. I was a professor, but I wasn’t in management and I thought ‘what is this philanthropy and alumni stuff? I’ll go and have a listen.’ Mary was so articulate and so clear about what it was and what they were trying to do – I thought ‘oh yes!’ I was lucky enough to have roles that then allowed me to work with Mary, so I have been very lucky in that regard. It took someone to tell me, and it comes back to the earlier point we made around that cultural piece. You don’t know what you don’t know.

Absolutely! You’re not recruited to know, that’s the other thing. I know fundraisers can get frustrated, but most academics are not recruited to do this and so it’s providing them with the tools to be successful.

Prof Jon Timmis: It was a real eye opener to me. That’s why I think it’s key and needs to be embedded in university strategy. How do you change the culture so people do become aware? Not everyone is going to go out and talk about it, but everyone is part of the story and understanding where they are in that story is crucial.